INTERVIEW WITH
MAULANA WAHIDUDDIN KHAN
By Gouran Dhawan Lal

Doordarshan (DD) is an autonomous public service broadcaster founded by the Government of India in 1959.It is one of India’s largest broadcasting organisations. DD National is the flagship channel of Doordarshan. Maulana Wahiduddin Khan was interviewed by Gouran Dhawan Lal for DD National. The video is available on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo20pEZIJbk). Here are the excerpts:

Hello. Welcome to our programme. Religion for most of us is a construct, a structure of values and beliefs that help us live our lives. But how we view religion is a matter of understanding and of interpretations. The challenge arises when we start stereotyping religion, when we start confusing the belief with the believer. When we start using the believer to try and judge the belief. That is when understanding takes a big hit. Well, today’s programme is dedicated to greater understanding because our guest is a repository of wisdom and learning. One of the most eminent scholars of Islam, he has not only dedicated his life to understanding his faith but is also a very keen proponent of the ideology of peace. Please welcome Maulana Wahiduddin Khan. Maulana Saheb, welcome to our show.

Maulana Saheb, you have written a book The Prophet of Peace. Why did you decide to write this book?

This book is actually the result of my lifetime of study. I have been a pacifist since childhood. My elder brother, whom I was inspired by, was a great supporter of the Freedom Movement of Mahatma Gandhi. He used to say that the Satyagraha of Mahatma Gandhi is mentioned in the Quran as: (to) exhort one another to hold fast to the Truth, and (to) exhort one another to steadfastness. (103: 3) This reference inspired me to keep reading and thinking on this subject until I discovered that Islam is not something detached from human values. Islam advocates universal values which are present everywhere. My study has allowed me to reach the conclusion that peace is the summum bonum in Islam. In the light of this principle, I read the Quran and the life of the Prophet. All teachings became explainable by following this principle. And all this became explainable to me. Then I wrote this book.

Maulana Saheb, you have addressed important issues and tried to dispel many misunderstandings about Islam in this book. You also mention that Islam is based on the ideology of peace. But why is there so much misunderstanding about Islam?

The misunderstandings do not arise from the scripture. Misunderstandings arise from altered temporal and spatial situations. Scriptures contain eternal teachings.

When Muslims entered the new age and faced challenges from western civilizations and other new powers, they concluded that to face these challenges, they must engage in jihad. They started doing jihad in the sense of armed struggle, and they interpreted Islam based on it. In contrast, when I studied this challenge deeply, I realized that the Muslims could have faced this challenge only through peace. There was no need for an armed struggle. In fact, the modern civilization brought new thought, new technology, and new science. It was a completely peaceful civilization. It is my understanding that the modern civilization is based on peace, and not on violence. Muslims wrongly concluded that jihad was needed to defeat this civilization. This was the point of derailment of Muslim thought. Through this book, I have tried to bring Muslims back on the right track.

You have used the word jihad. What is the meaning of jihad?

Jihad literally means to strive, to struggle. It means peaceful struggle for a noble cause. That is jihad. Because of the misinterpretation of the word jihad, people mistakenly understood the meaning of jihad as armed warfare. If you consult a dictionary to find meaning of this word, you will find that the meaning of jihad is to strive and struggle. In fact, jihad of the new age was that Muslims should move forward in education, science, industry, and technology, instead Muslims started engaging in violent activities. This was a derailment from the right path of Islam. I have dedicated my entire life towards bringing this derailment back to the right track.

This means that the daily struggles and efforts we make in our daily life to improve our lives or do constructive work or develop spirituality in ourselves, do you think this is also jihad?

Of course, the Prophet has labelled it as a great jihad, i.e., jihad-e-akbar. Fighting with your desires, shunning the whims, struggling to protect yourself from negativity, trying to keep yourself on positive thinking, such acts are labelled as the greater jihad by the Prophet.

Maulana Saheb, you talked about negativity. Please say a few things on this topic. If we look at our daily life, we find that people of any position, of any age, negativity enters in our lives. How do we face it?

I read the Quran many times to understand this phenomenon. The Quran informs us that human beings have been created by God. God has granted freedom, total freedom, to human beings. This freedom has been granted to me, to you and to everyone. When a person uses his freedom, he will sometimes misuse it as well. The negativity that we see is due to the misuse of freedom. This misuse causes shocks to us, and we turn negative. The Quran says that when a person turns negative, he turns negative against God. A person is misusing freedom because God has given him the freedom to choose between what is right and what is wrong.

God has created the world based on the principle of challenge and competition. Without freedom, the principle of challenge and competition cannot be there. People need to be free to vie with one another, this will create challenge for others. This challenge has to be faced peacefully. Don’t give in to negative thoughts. Turning negative means, you are turning negative against God. It is because the creation plan of God is based on challenge and competition. What should be your response then? You cannot change this system. That’s why Quran has made a very profound comment on this situation. According to the Quran, don’t try to eliminate negativity, but face it with positive thinking. This is the teaching of the Quran. I am following this principle.

Whenever we talk about religion, the concept that is most common in religion is the fear of God, we have been hearing the same concept about God even from childhood to adulthood that fear God, be scared of God. Why do we never think about love for God? Why don’t we love God?

I have studied a lot about this. I have found from the Quran that fear is a secondary thing in Islam. The primary focus is indeed love. The first verse of the first chapter of the Quran is: All praise is due to God, the Lord of the universe. This praise arises out of the feelings of gratefulness. Why would one be grateful? One would feel gratefulness because one has received something. The very first sentence of the Quran exhorts a person to thank and acknowledge God. Quran mentions many times that God has given the human beings innumerable bounties, life-support system, the planetary system, the Sun, and the Moon. These are all bounties of God. Therefore, be thankful. Fearing God is secondary. It is not the primary aspect in Islam. Loving God and loving human beings, form the primary teaching of Islam.

Maulana Saheb, when we talk about teachings, be it structured teaching methodology of religion and spirituality, or be it nonstructured teaching methodology for those who profess to be atheists, who claim that they do not believe in God. However, there still are some principles and moral values or ideology on the basis of which we live our lives. When we talk about our children, then how can we create an atmosphere where our children grow up with the values of freedom, equality, and mutual understanding?

Regarding children, I have read a statement of the Prophet. He said: No child is born but upon true nature. It is later in life that his nature gets distorted. What is this true nature? This true nature comprises of love, compassion, tolerance, being helpful to others. This is true nature. Every child is born as a positive thinker. His nature changes due to the influence of the environment. I think that the parents should know that it is not their job to give their children orders and commands. Their job is to actualize their potential. They should find out their potential and try to help them to actualize this potential.

I have also understood that God has placed a special quality in every child, so every person is unique. Parents should discover his uniqueness. They should not impose their ideas on their children. This produces reaction from the children. I believe that every child is born on true nature, with positivity. Additionally, every child is born with a unique quality. Discover this quality and help the child realize this quality. This is the job of the parents. They should not force their ideas on their children.

It is said that hope makes the world go round. The world functions on hope. However, hope is also the biggest cause of suffering. How to resolve this dilemma?

This world is indeed a place of hope. From the beginning to the end, it is filled with hope. Let me tell you how. We wish the world to function according to our mind. This can never happen. The world will not function according to our mindset. It has its own laws by which it works. When we face this, when we face problems, we should not consider them as problems, rather we should face them as challenges. The benefit of this approach is manifold. In last analysis, all challenges boil down to difference between human beings. We have to learn the art of difference management. Don’t try to eliminate the differences. Without differences, there can be no intellectual development. Because of differences, discussions, dialogues, and exchange of ideas take place. This results in development. Difference is the only way to reach the goal of intellectual development. Personally, I invite differences. I don’t consider differences as problems. I am a hopeful person to the fullest extent. There is no place for disappointments in my life. Any negative situation that comes before me, I try to convert negativity into positivity.

And when disappointment does come, we should put it on the side and move on?

Every state of disappointment carries a challenge along with it for us. If we face this challenge positively, we will see development within us. Our mind gets a new horizon to progress from. This has been my experience throughout my life.

How do we keep ourselves centred? We are all involved in daily life, whether one is a father, brother, worker, son, husband: there are so many roles that a human being plays. We lose track of ourselves in all this rush. How do we find our true selves?

That’s the first question? First of all, you have to discover yourself. See what I do? I have a park facing my house. I sit in the park. I contemplate while sitting there. I think that I have more capacity than the tree before me, the sun shining over me cannot speak, while I can speak, I have more power than the birds that are flying. Thus, I discover myself that I am a unique being. Therefore, I never experience negativity. In the entire universe, I consider myself a unique creation. Then what is the use of negativity? The problems that come before us are challenges for our mind, and the challenges are there only to aid in our intellectual development.

The mind, Maulana Saheb, keeps on speaking, it doesn’t stay quiet. I am talking to you, but my mind pulls me in many directions. So, this mind is constantly chattering. How do you keep it still? And how do you bring peace to the mind?

Yes, it is a problem. And I call it the problem of distraction. Mind diverts and distracts repeatedly. I think this is the key to successful life that you should not let your mind be distracted. Distraction spoils everything. Our focus is removed, our intellectual development does not take place. The biggest thing that should be done for intellectual development and spiritual development is that you have to save yourself from all kinds of distraction. It is of utmost importance.

So, are there any special ways of saving ourselves from distraction that we can employ in our daily lives?

Activity of the mind is the only approach. See there is no technique to bring about change in man. It is the mind that governs all your activities. Activate your mind. Train your mind. As soon as an event of distraction occurs, your mind should instantly become aware that this is where distraction is taking place. Then quickly return it to the right path. There is no technique. I do not believe in any techniques that are presented in this regard. I believe in activating the mind. Intellectual awakening is the biggest technique.

We are in conversation with eminent scholar of Islam, Maulana Wahiduddin Khan Saheb.

Maulana ji! Centre for Peace and Spirituality. What kind of organization is this?

The idea for this organization is not new, I had this idea since 1950. However, I developed it as an organization in January 2001. So, from 1950, it had been in my mind that the biggest thing is peace. I searched for a relevant verse in the Quran. The Quran says: “And God calls to the home of peace.” (10: 25) That is, God says build a peaceful society, build a peaceful home, create a peaceful atmosphere.

I attended an exhibition in Azamgarh. I put up a stall there with a big sign board. On the board was written: “And God calls to the home of peace.” This is how I started my journey, from 1950. I became an ambassador and an advocate of peace. My call was: O people peace is the greatest thing, peace is the summum bonum, at home, in society, in the environment, on the national and the international level, everywhere. Since then, I have based all my life on peace.

About the centre, i.e., CPS, what do you do at this centre for peace, like seminars?

See the issue at hand is about methodology. People generally think that peace workers should hold meetings, organize stages, organize seminars, etc. I do not believe in this methodology. Peace does not come in the world through stage activism and street activism. I believe in re-engineering of the mind.

Re-engineer the minds of individuals in such a manner that it nurtures peaceful thoughts. You might be aware of the formula of UNESCO, that violence begins from the mind. Violence begins from the mind and from the mind itself peace can be cultivated. I believe in re-engineering of the mind, changing the mind, changing the thinking. This stage activism, and street activism and public meetings, etc., this is not my approach.

I have written more than 200 books, available in many languages. We have a website. My lectures are conducted regularly and telecast live. We are running this mission throughout the world using modern communication. In almost every country, there are supporters of our mission. But we are going about our mission in a very quiet manner. You will not find crowds here.

What is your mission?

My mission is to train a person to think peacefully. Yesterday, I got a call from a person living in USA. He told me that he was very negative before, i.e., he would get negative thinking about Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan. He would consider America in a bad way. Then, he read my books, like he read this book The Prophet of Peace. Now, his mind has changed completely, now he has become a promoter of peace.

Thus, by changing an individual, you gain a volunteer for peace. Through the efforts of this volunteer, a group of similar-minded people is formed. Similar groups then form a society. Thus, my methodology is to start with an individual. Then gradually, peace reaches society. This is our way of working.

There is so much churning happening in society, Progress is happening at such a fast pace. There are so many problems within the world. Some nations very rich, some nations are still struggling. What is the most important issue today?

I think peace is the most important issue today. People have forgotten that you can achieve anything through peaceful means. You cannot achieve anything through violence. Recently, we saw many countries suffer from violence, but nothing could be achieved. People have forgotten the value of peace. They understand the value of power. They understand the value of money. They understand the value of war. They understand the value of bombardment.

However, they do not understand that you have to see the result. My advice to people is to see the result in everything. If the result is good, then that thing is good, otherwise that thing is not good. I believe that the most powerful thing is peace. There is a principle in the Quran that reconciliation is the best. (4: 128) Peace is the most powerful thing you have. If you have peace, you can get everything. There is a unique Hadith that means “God grants to nonviolence what he does not grant to violence.” The Creator has designed this world in such a manner that you can achieve anything however big through peace. You will not be able to get anything through violence.

In the world, you see that First World War occurred. What was achieved through it? The Second World War occurred. What was achieved through it? Wars keep on occurring, but nothing is achieved. Now see the peaceful method. All the progress that has been made in the world is through peace such as development of science, the advancements of the industry. All these happened through peaceful activities.

So, there is no area or a case where violence can be justified?

Yes, this is my belief. You must manage violence, do not confront it. I repeatedly say that we have to manage violence. I will give an example. The biggest factor for fight is anger. People fight when enraged. This is the case with an individual as well as a nation. When they get angry, they start fighting.

As far as anger is concerned, psychological studies tell us that anger is a matter of 30 seconds. When you are angry, remain silent for 30 seconds. What will happen after 30 seconds is that anger starts to cool down.

We have to count till 30.

Within 30 seconds, cooling process starts. Initially, anger will flare up. You must remain silent for 30 seconds so that the cooling process starts. The anger will go away on its own. I also do the same when I get angry.

Do you get angry?

When I get angry, I become silent. The moment I become silent; anger starts to diminish. I pacify my anger. Anger is part of human nature. You have to manage it. Manage your anger. The biggest formula is that you have to learn the art of anger management.

I am listening to all these things sitting in a quiet environment Maulana Saheb. This talk carries a lot of meaning. When someone is facing or experiencing a situation, and someone says that you try and manage it, as you said that you have to train mind, then how the mind is trained?

What we teach our colleagues is this one formula: always think taking the result into consideration. Whenever anger comes, whenever hate comes, whenever any negative thought comes, and you want to take an action, think about the result. Always think of the result. As soon as you think about the result, your mind will tell you that there is nothing to be gained from it, manage it peacefully. We advise all our colleagues to follow the formula of always seeing the result. Think of the result first, only then take an action if you have to. Do not take any action before thinking about the result.

There is a question Maulana Saheb on relationships. All of us are bound in different relationships, so how should relationships be managed?

Toleration. See, in relationships there will definitely be something like complaint, there will be some ill behaviour on the part of others. There is no other option except that we tolerate. There is no other option. Every day, morning and evening, we have to tolerate. What people do generally is that when they face some negative experience, they immediately take it seriously. Why take it so seriously? There is a great saying by Bertrand Russell: “The most uneducated person is one who has nothing to forget.” So, you should have something to forget. If something happens through someone, forget it. When you face something negative, forget it. It is only by forgetting that we can live peacefully in this world. If you do not forget, there will be tension at all times. So, the formula of a tension-free life that we tell our companions is this: Forget, forget, forget.

Yes, forget all the negative things.

Yes, forget. It is because otherwise there is no escape from negativity. I believe that the rose flower will always carry thorns. Similarly, according to the creation plan of God, there will be challenge, problem, competition will always be there in life. There will be some occurrences that you will not like. Then manage it, tolerate it, forget it. There is no other option.

True!
A question arises again about criticism. When someone criticizes you. Most instances of criticism hurt you. How does one handle criticism?

What is criticism for some people is feedback for me to improve. I’ve been to USA many times. I once asked a professor there what the secret of USA’s development was. He said that we like dissent very much. If someone criticizes you, someone shows dissent against you, you should wholeheartedly accept it because this opens a new door, it brings creativity. What we generally do is that we immediately take dissent in the negative sense. If we take criticism in a positive sense, it ends all disputes. I tell people that if you look into a mirror and find spot on your face, you do not get angry. Similarly, any critic tells you about some such spot, what is the reason to get provoked then? Take it in a positive sense. Consider him a great well-wisher of yours.

Dissent is the essence of progress. I think not a lot of people believe in it, which is also true.

This is a very philosophical question, and I don’t think anyone better than you to answer it, Maulana Saheb! What is the purpose of life?

Do you want to know the purpose of life according to Islam?

Yes, of course.

Look. I have been reading the scriptures of Islam all my life. I have been reading many books. I have studied all religions. What Islam tells is that God created a very beautiful world. This world is Paradise. Now, God needs candidates to settle in this Paradise. Deserving candidates. God created this world because He wants to do selection here for Paradise.

So, you and I are here under God’s watch, and God is watching us to determine who is capable of being settled there. And who is the deserving candidate of that Paradise? The most important thing about this is peace.

The Quran says about the people of Paradise that ‘only the words of peace and tranquility’ (56: 26) will be spoken by them. People of Paradise will live peacefully. No one there will harbour any negative thought. No one will fight with another person. A person who proves in this world that he is the person who lives peacefully in social life, he will be the one selected to enter Paradise. It is such a beautiful purpose of life that we are placed in this world for a limited period which is pre-death period of our life. If we can prove here that we are those people who can live with spirituality, with peace, with love, and we do not harbour hate for anyone, it means we will be selected to settle in Paradise in post-death period. This is the concept of Islam.

What do you think is the purpose of life?

See, I believe that I can say that I love God most, Who created me. I often think alone that my hand, this foot, this mind, this eye, this ear, who gave me all these? I can say with certainty that the mountain, the sea, the sun, the moon, none of them have these. I have these gifts. An ocean of love then flows in my heart for God. I glorify God that He has given me all these things. It’s the biggest asset of my life: to love God.

So, does Islam believe that there is only one path or that there can be many paths?

The concept of Islam is that every man is Mr Different. Every woman is Ms Different. That is, no two persons are alike. The whole world is full of Mr Different and Ms Different. If this is the case, there will be differences, people will speak ill about each other. What should be done then. Make these a point of discussion. If this happens that every person in the world is exactly the same, there will be no subject to discuss.

It will be very boring.

Life will be completely boring. Like someone said, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.” So, if everyone thinks in one way, what will happen? There will be no intellectual development.

No growth. Very true!

So, I take it in the positive sense that there are differences. If there are no differences, how will you move forward? Any development such as spiritual development, intellectual development or even scientific development cannot happen if there are no differences.

If there are differences, will the paths also be different.

Look. As far as path is concerned, no one knows in an absolute sense what is that one path? No one knows this in absolute sense. The path that I like becomes my ideal. Only God knows what is the ideal in the absolute sense. I have been studying all my life. I have studied every religion. I believe that every person has to live in conviction. Every person must live in conviction. How will this conviction take root? I can derive conviction when I am following a path that I have thought over.

What I feel is the truth, I follow. The people with differing convictions, I tolerate them. I give right to every person that he should believe in whatever he wants. The formula of Islam I have found is: “To you, your religion; to me, mine.” (109: 6) It means: Follow one. Respect all.

I give everyone the right to believe in what they think is true with full conviction, because if I did not arrive at conviction in the world, I did not find anything. However, with this conviction, it is necessary to know how to respect others. I can say about myself that I do not hate anyone. I can listen to anyone with an open mind, even if he is speaking against me.

Whenever we talk to someone Maulana ji, in our life, at home, at work, there are two or three people inside us. There is one who sits on the seat of judgement, who makes assessment of things like a filter and a lot of emotions come from it, love, hate, respect, anger, pass, fail. So how to remove this filter so that we are totally accepting?

This is not a desired thing. It is hidden in this wish that you want everything to be normal and there are no differences, everyone should be the same way, there is no difference in emotions, there is no difference in thinking. This is not a desired thing. The difference is the correct thing. A great scholar has said that ‘nature abhors uniformity.’ Uniformity is not in the scheme of nature. I am least interested in the situation where every person has the same emotion, everyone has the same thinking. I want that there are differences so that I get point of discussion.

Conflict is not bad. How do we resolve conflict and how we take the process as you said, that is very important. And if you get differences, it will lead to growth.

Conflict is not a negative thing. It’s a positive thing. I don’t take conflict in a negative sense. If there is no conflict, how will you think? How will more and newer ideas come? So, I think that conflict is a very positive phenomenon. It is a steppingstone for further development.

One relationship that we are all spoiling in our own way, is nature’s relationship with us. I don’t think anyone is behaving responsibly towards the environment. In fact, we are responsible for the destruction of the environment. So, what should be our relationship with nature?

The formula given in the Quran about it is: “Do not spread corruption on the earth after it has been set in order.” (7: 56) This verse is about the planet Earth. Everything in the planet Earth is well balanced such as water, air, soil. We need to keep them as they are. We are not supposed to corrupt them. We can make use of them, but we cannot corrupt them. It is not permissible for us to pollute water. It is not permissible for us to pollute air. It is not permissible for us to create noise pollution. For example, you cannot make noise or blow horns on road while driving car. We have not been granted the right to do so. Thus, everything is well balanced, i.e., everything that God has created is well balanced. Don’t disturb this balance, rather maintain it.

If human beings follow this principle, water pollution, air pollution, etc., will not take place. The ecological system will function just right.

You talk about balance in nature. Of course, there is a natural beautiful balance. Maulana Saheb, we are not able to bring balance in our lives. Where does need end, and where does greed start? Maulana ji, how do we understand the difference between need and greed in our lives?

I will tell you what my formula is. It is a little formula. It is: “simple living, high thinking.” This is my formula. See, peace and solace, these can only be found in simplicity. The more you increase the greed, likewise, increases the tension, problems also increase.

Today, I spoke to a gentleman who told me that he had gone to Ooty. He met a Bengali family there. The family members were very healthy, all men, women as well children, all were very healthy. He wanted to know what the secret of their health was. They said our houses don’t have stove. We eat fruits, vegetables, we drink milk, that’s all we eat and drink. I am not saying that every person should follow this, but this is a formula for simple life.

What is the benefit of simple life? Simple life saves you from distraction. The biggest thing in life is that you can save yourself from distraction. Without simple life, you cannot save yourself from distraction. When there is simple life, high thinking will come. High quality of life will come. Every aspect of life will find progress.

You said that competition is the basis of this world. Because of the competition as we understand it, we bring many struggles in our life. We don’t know where to stop. I want this bungalow, I want this car, then, I want to send my children abroad. Where do we put our need as our target and reach to greed? So, is competition one of the reasons for greed?

Here I would urge people to think what the result is that they are getting from greed. People who live in expectation of more and more, I have found them all to be living in tension. Look at me. I am in late 80s. I get sound sleep. I have seen people from my family and outside who do not sleep.

They take pills for sound sleep.

or take pills for sound sleep. They face so many problems. I have never taken such pills. Why? It is because of simple living. The people keep piling up things, they keep on increasing their greed, but they do not think about the result they get. More greed, more tension; more greed, more stress; more greed, more depression. So, what is the benefit? The real thing is my being. If I lose myself, then what would be the use of the horde of cars and bungalows? The real thing is my being. It is my experience of a lifetime that if a person wants to lead a tension-free, peaceful life, he should adopt simple life. Simplicity is the best formula.

Maulana Saheb! Please tell us something from your life or some learning you’d like to share with our viewers by which our quality of life can really improve.

See. The very first thing that I would say is you must discover yourself. Discover what special quality your Creator has given you. Develop this special quality, it is very important for you. What people do is focus their attention on something else and are not able to make progress in life. So, that task number one is to know this special quality and then develop it.

Task number two is to lead a simple life. Leading a simple life saves you from wasting time, wasting money. Simple life saves you from distraction. The task number three is to never let negativity come near you. Manage every negativity. Manage negativity and convert it into positivity. The task number four, I would say is that the world is waiting for someone to make a contribution to it, so that the world may accept you.

Without giving anything to the world, you will not get anything from the world. In giving we receive. The fourth Caliph of Islam said that the value of person lies in their excellence. Therefore, become excellent. In other words, this saying can be likened to this: There is always room at the top. If you want to find a place in the world, you have to give something, only then the world will give you something in return.

Become a giver. If you become a taker, you will only live in complaints. If I sum this up, then only two things are basic: peace and spirituality. What is Peace? Peace is the name of external spirituality. What is Spiritualty? Spirituality is the name of inner peace. These two words encompass everything. If we want to bring peace in our thoughts, it becomes spirituality; if we want to bring spirituality in the external world, it becomes peace. This is my experience of a lifetime.

Wonderfully put. That means peace and spirituality they complement each other and that forms totality. Maulana Saheb, it is in giving that we receive. You gave your time, and we received a lot of learning. I would like to thank you. Thank you so much for coming to our programme. We learned so much talking to you, thank you!